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HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

  • 1.  HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 10:27 AM

    We have a situation that is new to me, so I thought I'd get some advice.  We have an HVAC company that is willing to give and install an HVAC unit worth about $13,000 in exchange for a $10,000 donation to our organization.  So the $10K donor wouldn't get a tax deduction because the goods and services would be more than than the donation.  But is there any problem with crediting the HVAC company for the in-kind amount of the HVAC units they give to the donors?  Are there any problems that I should be thinking of?

    I appreciate any input. 



    ------------------------------
    Kimberly Abel
    Director, Development Operations & Technology
    Phoenix Children's Hospital Foundation
    kabel@phoenixchildrens.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 10:38 AM
    I need some clarification. Are they giving you the HVAC and $10,000? Or are they only giving you cash if you agree to buy their HVAC?

    If the latter, there is no charitable donation because you would not get the $10,000 if you didn't buy the HVAC.

    But if they are giving you BOTH the money and the unit, each is a donation, although if the $13,000 HVAC unit includes installation costs (services), that portion is not a gift.

    John

    John H. Taylor, Principal
    John H. Taylor Consulting, LLC
    2604 Sevier Street
    Durham, NC     27705

    919.816.5903 (cell/text)

    Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987






  • 3.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 11:20 AM

    Sorry, I wasn't very clear.  A customer of the HVAC company is giving us $10K and the HVAC company will install an HVAC for that customer in exchange.



    ------------------------------
    Kimberly Abel
    Phoenix Children's Hospital Foundation
    kabel@phoenixchildrens.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 11:55 AM
    Okay. I am even more confused :-).

    This sounds very much like a quid pro quo. A QPQ can still exist if a donor receives some in exchange from a third party - not just a charity. I recall an instance (discussed with the IRS) where, unbeknownst to a local charity an electronics store offered individuals a CD player for free in they brought in a gift receipt from the local college proving they had made a $500 donation to that school. That was still a QPQ even though the college initially knew nothing about it.

    What you are saying here is that the customer is getting what amounts to a free HVAC but only if they make a $10,000 donation to you. That's still a QPQ. There is no net gift.

    Unless there are additional facts we are not aware of!

    John

    John H. Taylor, Principal
    John H. Taylor Consulting, LLC
    2604 Sevier Street
    Durham, NC     27705

    919.816.5903 (cell/text)

    Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987







  • 5.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 12:40 PM
    Like John said, there's no gift here, it's a ruse. The donor is getting an air conditioner in exchange for paying $10k in pre-tax dollars, instead of $13k in post-tax dollars. And the company gets to drive $10k in cash to a charity it wants to support, but is only supplying service and inventory worth a fraction of that. This is exactly the kind of thing the IRS doesn't want charitable deductions to be able to achieve. 


    Thank you,
    Isaac Shalev
    Data Strategy Expert
    Sage70, Inc.
    (917) 859-0151
    isaac@sage70.com

    Schedule a 30-minute consultation now:







  • 6.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 04:43 PM

    Yes, it makes sense that the monetary donor wouldn't receive a tax benefit.  But we can give the HVAC company an in-kind receipt for the donation of x number of HVAC units, correct?  

    Also, if the HVAC company gives a customer $50 off the price of a unit in exchange for a $100 donation, would we say that the donor received goods and services of $50?



    ------------------------------
    Kimberly Abel
    Phoenix Children's Hospital Foundation
    kabel@phoenixchildrens.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 04:57 PM
    Why would you give the HVAC company ANY credit - let alone a receipt? They are not giving you anything! They are giving g the units to their customers not your non-profit.

    John H. Taylor
    919.816.5903 (Cell/Text)

    Big Ideas - Small Keyboard





  • 8.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-19-2024 05:09 PM
    Oh, and yes. If the company gave that discount in exchange for a gift to you that is another QPQ example. The net gift amount would be $50.

    John H. Taylor
    919.816.5903 (Cell/Text)

    Big Ideas - Small Keyboard





  • 9.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-20-2024 08:51 AM
    Kimberly, I nearly lost sleep over this scenario last night - but didn't ��

    Still, there is something very unethical going on here-unless we are missing some facts. Issac already touched on some of this.

    The HVAC company gets no tax deduction whatsoever for what it is proposing. It could only claim a deduction if it voluntarily gave you cash (or HVAC units to install at the Hospital).

    And their customers are not receiving a tax deduction, either, if the HVAC company is essentially bribing (there's probably a better word to use here) them to give to you by offering a free or discounted unit in exchange.

    Is there more to this we do not know about?

    John

    John H. Taylor, Principal
    John H. Taylor Consulting, LLC
    2604 Sevier Street
    Durham, NC     27705

    919.816.5903 (cell/text)

    Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987


    On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 6:09 PM John Taylor <johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com> wrote:
    Oh, and yes. If the company gave that discount in exchange for a gift to you that is another QPQ example. The net gift amount would be $50.

    John H. Taylor
    919.816.5903 (Cell/Text)

    Big Ideas - Small Keyboard





  • 10.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-20-2024 03:50 PM

    I'm glad you didn't lose sleep, John!  I don't think there are bad intentions here, just supporters who are trying to think of innovative ways to raise money but don't understand the IRS rules.  We're working to educate them that there is no tax-deductible donation here for anyone.  I appreciate your input!



    ------------------------------
    Kimberly Abel
    Phoenix Children's Hospital Foundation
    kabel@phoenixchildrens.com
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: HVAC and instillation in exchange for donation?

    Posted 11-20-2024 03:56 PM
    All good! And good luck with the educating!

    John H. Taylor, Principal
    John H. Taylor Consulting, LLC
    2604 Sevier Street
    Durham, NC     27705

    919.816.5903 (cell/text)

    Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987