FundSvcs Community

Hello everyone! Has anyone had a foundation insist on a return of funds provision for an endowed scholarship? I've come across many such provisions in research and specific project-based gifts but not one in establishing an endowed scholarship. The foundation doesn't seem to have an interest in renegotiating the terms of the scholarship if the fund can't be used for the original purpose intended. I've seen many programs changed or eliminated due to lack of enrollment or changed requirements for me to feel like this provision would never be enacted. Legal has taken a look for what is acceptable to the university but they tend to not provide an opinion on what constitutes a CASE-countable gift. I'd love to hear the opinions of the community. Thanks! Mandy -- Mandy L. L. Smith Director of Gifts and Records Management Development & Alumni Relations Virginia Commonwealth University PO Box 842026 111 N. Fourth St. Richmond, VA 23219 (804) 828-0348 mlsmith4@vcu.edu The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer.

It's not so much "CASE-countable," as it is a legal matter. If they insist on a return clause instead of a repurpose clause, then the payment is not irrevocable and the donor has retained control. I'd work with the foundation to find some better language than an outright return else for all practical purposes the money does not permanently belong to you. John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:56 AM Mandy Smith <mlsmith4@vcu.edu> wrote: > Hello everyone! > > Has anyone had a foundation insist on a return of funds provision for an > endowed scholarship? I've come across many such provisions in research and > specific project-based gifts but not one in establishing an endowed > scholarship. The foundation doesn't seem to have an interest in > renegotiating the terms of the scholarship if the fund can't be used for > the original purpose intended. I've seen many programs changed or > eliminated due to lack of enrollment or changed requirements for me to feel > like this provision would never be enacted. > > Legal has taken a look for what is acceptable to the university but they > tend to not provide an opinion on what constitutes a CASE-countable gift. > I'd love to hear the opinions of the community. > > Thanks! > > Mandy > > -- > > Mandy L. L. Smith > Director of Gifts and Records Management > Development & Alumni Relations > Virginia Commonwealth University > PO Box 842026 > 111 N. Fourth St. > Richmond, VA 23219 > (804) 828-0348 > mlsmith4@vcu.edu > > The information contained in this message may be privileged and > confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message > is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your > computer. > >

I think this was an endowed gift that they could pull at any time in perpetuity. So they can demand a refund anytime. John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:55 PM Hejnal, Alan < 00000031f8bb5829-dmarc-request@listserv.fundsvcs.org> wrote: > Hmmm. Or, perhaps, the gift is conditional until a qualifying recipient > is identified, at which point the condition is fulfilled and the gift > becomes countable? > > > > My US$0.02 worth; the usual disclaimers apply. > > > > Good luck! > > > > *Alan* > > > > *Alan S. Hejnal * > > Data Quality Manager > > Smithsonian Institution - Office of Advancement > > 600 Maryland Avenue SW, Suite 600E > > P.O. Box 37012, MRC 527 > > Washington, DC 20013-7012 > > (: 202-633-8754 | *: HejnalA@si.edu > > > [image: SNAGHTML5cbfa34] <https://www.si.edu/> > [image: AASP_FundSvcs_LOGO-01(040pct)(mark)] > > > > > > *From:* Advancement Services Discussion List < > FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> *On Behalf Of *John Taylor > *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2019 12:20 PM > *To:* FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [FUNDSVCS] Return of Funds on Endowed Scholarships > > > > It's not so much "CASE-countable," as it is a legal matter. If they > insist on a return clause instead of a repurpose clause, then the payment > is not irrevocable and the donor has retained control. > > > > I'd work with the foundation to find some better language than an outright > return else for all practical purposes the money does not permanently > belong to you. > > > > John > > > > John H. Taylor > > Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting > > 2604 Sevier St. > > Durham, NC 27705 > > johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com > > 919.816.5903 (cell/text) > > > > Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:56 AM Mandy Smith <mlsmith4@vcu.edu> wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > > > Has anyone had a foundation insist on a return of funds provision for an > endowed scholarship? I've come across many such provisions in research and > specific project-based gifts but not one in establishing an endowed > scholarship. The foundation doesn't seem to have an interest in > renegotiating the terms of the scholarship if the fund can't be used for > the original purpose intended. I've seen many programs changed or > eliminated due to lack of enrollment or changed requirements for me to feel > like this provision would never be enacted. > > > > Legal has taken a look for what is acceptable to the university but they > tend to not provide an opinion on what constitutes a CASE-countable gift. > I'd love to hear the opinions of the community. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mandy > > > > -- > > Mandy L. L. Smith > > Director of Gifts and Records Management > > Development & Alumni Relations > > Virginia Commonwealth University > PO Box 842026 > 111 N. Fourth St. > Richmond, VA 23219 > (804) 828-0348 > mlsmith4@vcu.edu > > The information contained in this message may be privileged and > confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message > is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your > computer. > >

Well, in the case of Robertson v. Princeton it was Robertson who sued for the market value increase. John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:11 PM Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> wrote: > I don’t think we’d allow that on an endowment. Forever is a long time. On > an operating gift we would dislike but not mind so much if we were > confident the awarding was a done deal had flexibility when picking the > student. > > > > PS Who gets the gains if you have to return the endowment to the > foundation in 100 years? > > > > Aaron > > > > Aaron Forrest CPA > > Senior Director Gift and Donor Services > > University of Rochester Office of Advancement > > Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center > > 300 East River Road > > Rochester NY 14627 > > Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 > > Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu > > > > [image: Description: Description: Description: > cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain > confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution > is prohibited. > > > > *From:* Advancement Services Discussion List < > FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> *On Behalf Of *Hejnal, Alan > *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2019 12:56 PM > *To:* FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [FUNDSVCS] Return of Funds on Endowed Scholarships > > > > Hmmm. Or, perhaps, the gift is conditional until a qualifying recipient > is identified, at which point the condition is fulfilled and the gift > becomes countable? > > > > My US$0.02 worth; the usual disclaimers apply. > > > > Good luck! > > > > *Alan* > > > > *Alan S. Hejnal * > > Data Quality Manager > > Smithsonian Institution - Office of Advancement > > 600 Maryland Avenue SW, Suite 600E > > P.O. Box 37012, MRC 527 > > Washington, DC 20013-7012 > > (: 202-633-8754 | *: HejnalA@si.edu > > > [image: SNAGHTML5cbfa34] > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.si.edu_&d=DwMGaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=pc5QRHoIH1F35Sgg9KlYqXn_kylxQCoaCKkt7wJkOyM&s=vvdVNRxuJyH3EDFjyKjL5QG88ePO0aKIOuDEEQYKmRM&e=> > [image: AASP_FundSvcs_LOGO-01(040pct)(mark)] > > > > > > *From:* Advancement Services Discussion List < > FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> *On Behalf Of *John Taylor > *Sent:* Friday, January 18, 2019 12:20 PM > *To:* FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG > *Subject:* Re: [FUNDSVCS] Return of Funds on Endowed Scholarships > > > > It's not so much "CASE-countable," as it is a legal matter. If they > insist on a return clause instead of a repurpose clause, then the payment > is not irrevocable and the donor has retained control. > > > > I'd work with the foundation to find some better language than an outright > return else for all practical purposes the money does not permanently > belong to you. > > > > John > > > > John H. Taylor > > Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting > > 2604 Sevier St. > > Durham, NC 27705 > > johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com > > 919.816.5903 (cell/text) > > > > Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:56 AM Mandy Smith <mlsmith4@vcu.edu> wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > > > Has anyone had a foundation insist on a return of funds provision for an > endowed scholarship? I've come across many such provisions in research and > specific project-based gifts but not one in establishing an endowed > scholarship. The foundation doesn't seem to have an interest in > renegotiating the terms of the scholarship if the fund can't be used for > the original purpose intended. I've seen many programs changed or > eliminated due to lack of enrollment or changed requirements for me to feel > like this provision would never be enacted. > > > > Legal has taken a look for what is acceptable to the university but they > tend to not provide an opinion on what constitutes a CASE-countable gift. > I'd love to hear the opinions of the community. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mandy > > > > -- > > Mandy L. L. Smith > > Director of Gifts and Records Management > > Development & Alumni Relations > > Virginia Commonwealth University > PO Box 842026 > 111 N. Fourth St. > Richmond, VA 23219 > (804) 828-0348 > mlsmith4@vcu.edu > > The information contained in this message may be privileged and > confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message > is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your > computer. > >

Hmmm. Or, perhaps, the gift is conditional until a qualifying recipient is identified, at which point the condition is fulfilled and the gift becomes countable? My US$0.02 worth; the usual disclaimers apply. Good luck! Alan Alan S. Hejnal Data Quality Manager Smithsonian Institution - Office of Advancement 600 Maryland Avenue SW, Suite 600E P.O. Box 37012, MRC 527 Washington, DC 20013-7012 •: 202-633-8754 | •: HejnalA@si.edu<mailto:HejnalA@si.edu> [SNAGHTML5cbfa34]<https://www.si.edu/> [AASP_FundSvcs_LOGO-01(040pct)(mark)] From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of John Taylor Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 12:20 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Return of Funds on Endowed Scholarships It's not so much "CASE-countable," as it is a legal matter. If they insist on a return clause instead of a repurpose clause, then the payment is not irrevocable and the donor has retained control. I'd work with the foundation to find some better language than an outright return else for all practical purposes the money does not permanently belong to you. John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com<mailto:johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com> 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:56 AM Mandy Smith <mlsmith4@vcu.edu<mailto:mlsmith4@vcu.edu>> wrote: Hello everyone! Has anyone had a foundation insist on a return of funds provision for an endowed scholarship? I've come across many such provisions in research and specific project-based gifts but not one in establishing an endowed scholarship. The foundation doesn't seem to have an interest in renegotiating the terms of the scholarship if the fund can't be used for the original purpose intended. I've seen many programs changed or eliminated due to lack of enrollment or changed requirements for me to feel like this provision would never be enacted. Legal has taken a look for what is acceptable to the university but they tend to not provide an opinion on what constitutes a CASE-countable gift. I'd love to hear the opinions of the community. Thanks! Mandy -- Mandy L. L. Smith Director of Gifts and Records Management Development & Alumni Relations Virginia Commonwealth University PO Box 842026 111 N. Fourth St. Richmond, VA 23219 (804) 828-0348 mlsmith4@vcu.edu<mailto:mlsmith4@vcu.edu> The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5ekSP4seDpALXlpbFFsX1VaMms&revid=0B5ekSP4seDpAdDE1amhqOGFIdFE2dFZoN1NzQWIvdmdEYUFjPQ]

I don’t think we’d allow that on an endowment. Forever is a long time. On an operating gift we would dislike but not mind so much if we were confident the awarding was a done deal had flexibility when picking the student. PS Who gets the gains if you have to return the endowment to the foundation in 100 years? Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Hejnal, Alan Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 12:56 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Return of Funds on Endowed Scholarships Hmmm. Or, perhaps, the gift is conditional until a qualifying recipient is identified, at which point the condition is fulfilled and the gift becomes countable? My US$0.02 worth; the usual disclaimers apply. Good luck! Alan Alan S. Hejnal Data Quality Manager Smithsonian Institution - Office of Advancement 600 Maryland Avenue SW, Suite 600E P.O. Box 37012, MRC 527 Washington, DC 20013-7012 •: 202-633-8754 | •: HejnalA@si.edu<mailto:HejnalA@si.edu> [SNAGHTML5cbfa34]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.si.edu_&d=DwMGaQ&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=pc5QRHoIH1F35Sgg9KlYqXn_kylxQCoaCKkt7wJkOyM&s=vvdVNRxuJyH3EDFjyKjL5QG88ePO0aKIOuDEEQYKmRM&e=> [AASP_FundSvcs_LOGO-01(040pct)(mark)] From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of John Taylor Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 12:20 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Return of Funds on Endowed Scholarships It's not so much "CASE-countable," as it is a legal matter. If they insist on a return clause instead of a repurpose clause, then the payment is not irrevocable and the donor has retained control. I'd work with the foundation to find some better language than an outright return else for all practical purposes the money does not permanently belong to you. John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com<mailto:johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com> 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 11:56 AM Mandy Smith <mlsmith4@vcu.edu<mailto:mlsmith4@vcu.edu>> wrote: Hello everyone! Has anyone had a foundation insist on a return of funds provision for an endowed scholarship? I've come across many such provisions in research and specific project-based gifts but not one in establishing an endowed scholarship. The foundation doesn't seem to have an interest in renegotiating the terms of the scholarship if the fund can't be used for the original purpose intended. I've seen many programs changed or eliminated due to lack of enrollment or changed requirements for me to feel like this provision would never be enacted. Legal has taken a look for what is acceptable to the university but they tend to not provide an opinion on what constitutes a CASE-countable gift. I'd love to hear the opinions of the community. Thanks! Mandy -- Mandy L. L. Smith Director of Gifts and Records Management Development & Alumni Relations Virginia Commonwealth University PO Box 842026 111 N. Fourth St. Richmond, VA 23219 (804) 828-0348 mlsmith4@vcu.edu<mailto:mlsmith4@vcu.edu> The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5ekSP4seDpALXlpbFFsX1VaMms&revid=0B5ekSP4seDpAdDE1amhqOGFIdFE2dFZoN1NzQWIvdmdEYUFjPQ]