FundSvcs Community

Oh, I am not an expert here, either. But I would have to say that I've not seen anything to the extreme Aaron is reporting. Here's a similar example from Northern Illinois University: https://www.myniu.com/images.html?file_id=XMrqGU0pEM8%3D <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=2ahUKEwi3k8WXjt_fAhVjja0KHQZ1AuQQFjAJegQIAhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.myniu.com%2Fimages.html%3Ffile_id%3DXMrqGU0pEM8%253D&usg=AOvVaw2YsqxW1ovzAlLa_XFYIJcF> But their $6,000 trip offers a *$100* tax-deductible gift - which is much more in-line with what I have seen elsewhere - not $1,000! I'd question the validity of the tax deduction. But then, you could argue that the donation is "voluntary." If you don't want the deduction you don't have to go on that trip :-). It's akin to hosting a fundraising event for a $1,000/plate dinner with $750 being deductible. Anyway, I personally don't like the concept but then I wasn't asked for my opinion by the institution :-). John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 4:18 PM Gregory Duke <greg@staupell.com> wrote: > Aaron: > > > I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more > knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer > some insight. > > > What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of > making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license > essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. > The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to > get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their > argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if > you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that > transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last > year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable > donation. > > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 > > > I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same > light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors > have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling > on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an > obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the > $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase > price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. > > > Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's > the gist of the situation. > > > Thanks, > > > Greg > > > Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO > > Staupell Analytics > > > greg@staupell.com > > http://www.staupell.com > > > Ph. (716) 946-1870 > > Twitter: GregoryEDuke > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Advancement Services Discussion List < > FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron < > aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU> > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM > *To:* FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG > *Subject:* [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips > > > Hello Friends! > > > > Does anyone do “fundraising trips or travel”? It seems like an odd way to > have an event or raise money and I’d like to know if you see any issues? > For example, “Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour > of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction.” Why is this setting of alarms > in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y’all! > > > > Aaron > > > > Aaron Forrest CPA > > Senior Director Gift and Donor Services > > University of Rochester Office of Advancement > > Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center > > 300 East River Road > > Rochester NY 14627 > > Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 > > Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu > > > > [image: Description: Description: Description: > cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain > confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution > is prohibited. > > >

Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

There are a lot of alumni associations that offer group travel, but I haven't heard of padding a deduction into it. If your organization can prove that, say, a $3,000 travel price includes only $2,000 worth of services, then you'd be safe. But I wouldn't go on that trip... Interesting idea. --Marianne ________________________________________ Marianne M. Pelletier Staupell Analytics Group 607-592-3797 marianne@staupell.com<mailto:marianne@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Forrest, Aaron Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 4:06 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

That was my thought? Why would I (as a donor) go on this trip? When I could just travel to Rome myself for less? Though there is the "learning" component, I guess. Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Marianne Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips There are a lot of alumni associations that offer group travel, but I haven't heard of padding a deduction into it. If your organization can prove that, say, a $3,000 travel price includes only $2,000 worth of services, then you'd be safe. But I wouldn't go on that trip... Interesting idea. --Marianne ________________________________________ Marianne M. Pelletier Staupell Analytics Group 607-592-3797 marianne@staupell.com<mailto:marianne@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.staupell.com&d=DwMFAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=mcqKbJXh0Tv3B-MSQxuNhw0hWbIv7mJofPvSSIlGqCA&s=QU8oGADnJf1jtJFdYAT85Hevq89tfVE-QtDHh5yZHdw&e=> From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Forrest, Aaron Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 4:06 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:64ad2c0a-dc18-4674-9cfa-b20049870df6] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do “fundraising trips or travel”? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I’d like to know if you see any issues? For example, “Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction.” Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y’all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

This is good info! But I think this situation is a bit different. These are not alumni. I'm also not sure if the $1,000 may be a voluntary extra charge. Investigating. How does the logic not apply to any fundraising gala where attendees must make a gift to attend? Note: We don't have the athletic fundraising issues you describe below. Thankfully. Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Gregory Duke Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:19 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.forbes.com_sites_chrissmith_2017_12_22_gop-2Dtax-2Dlaw-2Dcould-2Dcost-2Dtop-2Dcollege-2Dathletic-2Ddepartments-2Dmillions_-237ed290dabea0&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=8cB385vFvdsH8YfVubWvykSa1Dj_VYxNEL2twBxFcio&s=LyEdhWXx8YKLGHQrDYZEjPCck2_wnqnLhpdxQQHZjLM&e=> I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.staupell.com&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=8cB385vFvdsH8YfVubWvykSa1Dj_VYxNEL2twBxFcio&s=nFZ3gxNXUW8X45M4ebvPjpgJ2u8eSDOlbePjwXA45RE&e=> Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image002.png@01D4A76E.AF5918C0] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

John: I'd think the Northern Illinois example would be OK simply because of the ratio of "trip cost" to "gift". I also wonder whether there might be an option to opt-out of the gift...taking $100 away from a $6,000 cost isn't a big deal, but taking a $1,000 "gift" away from a $3,000 fee is fairly substantial. And I still think the IRS would not see the $1,000 "gift" as voluntary in this instance. It's true that if you don't go on the trip, you don't make the gift. But then if I advertised and sold "Duke's All-Natural Cat Food Products" for $1 a can and claimed that "half the purchase price goes to local cat shelters" I don't think the IRS would look kindly on my customers deducting 50 cents a can as a donation. That 50 cents is part of the purchase price and not a "voluntary" donation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:3da9567b-5175-4606-a891-94f386fbf60c] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> on behalf of John Taylor <johntaylorconsulting@GMAIL.COM> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:29:05 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Oh, I am not an expert here, either. But I would have to say that I've not seen anything to the extreme Aaron is reporting. Here's a similar example from Northern Illinois University: <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=2ahUKEwi3k8WXjt_fAhVjja0KHQZ1AuQQFjAJegQIAhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.myniu.com%2Fimages.html%3Ffile_id%3DXMrqGU0pEM8%253D&usg=AOvVaw2YsqxW1ovzAlLa_XFYIJcF> https://www.myniu.com/images.html?file_id=XMrqGU0pEM8%3D But their $6,000 trip offers a $100 tax-deductible gift - which is much more in-line with what I have seen elsewhere - not $1,000! I'd question the validity of the tax deduction. But then, you could argue that the donation is "voluntary." If you don't want the deduction you don't have to go on that trip :-). It's akin to hosting a fundraising event for a $1,000/plate dinner with $750 being deductible. Anyway, I personally don't like the concept but then I wasn't asked for my opinion by the institution :-). John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com<mailto:johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com> 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 4:18 PM Gregory Duke <greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com>> wrote: Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:1682f573a35d978e1652] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do “fundraising trips or travel”? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I’d like to know if you see any issues? For example, “Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction.” Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y’all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

We wouldn't allow a $100 deductible on a $6,000 amount. That seems absurd. It would have to be at least $600 per our QPQ rules. That's what I like to call "getting the gift office to do your banking or charging (and credit card fees) for you" even though there really is no gift. :) Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Gregory Duke Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:49 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips John: I'd think the Northern Illinois example would be OK simply because of the ratio of "trip cost" to "gift". I also wonder whether there might be an option to opt-out of the gift...taking $100 away from a $6,000 cost isn't a big deal, but taking a $1,000 "gift" away from a $3,000 fee is fairly substantial. And I still think the IRS would not see the $1,000 "gift" as voluntary in this instance. It's true that if you don't go on the trip, you don't make the gift. But then if I advertised and sold "Duke's All-Natural Cat Food Products" for $1 a can and claimed that "half the purchase price goes to local cat shelters" I don't think the IRS would look kindly on my customers deducting 50 cents a can as a donation. That 50 cents is part of the purchase price and not a "voluntary" donation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.staupell.com&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=x1pCibKIxK9R90Gq0URqmYUGQbpyfyMjCXuv6nl7DEk&s=pw29d-tS56zxFP3PPIECVT7vVnJWHaM3nrI2BlrABPk&e=> Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image002.png@01D4A773.0EF853A0] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of John Taylor <johntaylorconsulting@GMAIL.COM<mailto:johntaylorconsulting@GMAIL.COM>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:29:05 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Oh, I am not an expert here, either. But I would have to say that I've not seen anything to the extreme Aaron is reporting. Here's a similar example from Northern Illinois University: <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.google.com_url-3Fsa-3Dt-26rct-3Dj-26q-3D-26esrc-3Ds-26source-3Dweb-26cd-3D10-26ved-3D2ahUKEwi3k8WXjt-5FfAhVjja0KHQZ1AuQQFjAJegQIAhAC-26url-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.myniu.com-252Fimages.html-253Ffile-5Fid-253DXMrqGU0pEM8-25253D-26usg-3DAOvVaw2YsqxW1ovzAlLa-5FXFYIJcF&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=x1pCibKIxK9R90Gq0URqmYUGQbpyfyMjCXuv6nl7DEk&s=pOIi8ibTo4LvNALmHc5ZOJxwn5I3bNsP0IyEzTfo-p8&e=> https://www.myniu.com/images.html?file_id=XMrqGU0pEM8%3D<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.google.com_url-3Fsa-3Dt-26rct-3Dj-26q-3D-26esrc-3Ds-26source-3Dweb-26cd-3D10-26ved-3D2ahUKEwi3k8WXjt-5FfAhVjja0KHQZ1AuQQFjAJegQIAhAC-26url-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.myniu.com-252Fimages.html-253Ffile-5Fid-253DXMrqGU0pEM8-25253D-26usg-3DAOvVaw2YsqxW1ovzAlLa-5FXFYIJcF&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=x1pCibKIxK9R90Gq0URqmYUGQbpyfyMjCXuv6nl7DEk&s=pOIi8ibTo4LvNALmHc5ZOJxwn5I3bNsP0IyEzTfo-p8&e=> But their $6,000 trip offers a $100 tax-deductible gift - which is much more in-line with what I have seen elsewhere - not $1,000! I'd question the validity of the tax deduction. But then, you could argue that the donation is "voluntary." If you don't want the deduction you don't have to go on that trip :-). It's akin to hosting a fundraising event for a $1,000/plate dinner with $750 being deductible. Anyway, I personally don't like the concept but then I wasn't asked for my opinion by the institution :-). John John H. Taylor Principal, John H. Taylor Consulting 2604 Sevier St. Durham, NC 27705 johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com<mailto:johntaylorconsulting@gmail.com> 919.816.5903 (cell/text) Serving the Advancement Community Since 1987 On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 4:18 PM Gregory Duke <greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com>> wrote: Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.forbes.com_sites_chrissmith_2017_12_22_gop-2Dtax-2Dlaw-2Dcould-2Dcost-2Dtop-2Dcollege-2Dathletic-2Ddepartments-2Dmillions_-237ed290dabea0&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=x1pCibKIxK9R90Gq0URqmYUGQbpyfyMjCXuv6nl7DEk&s=Dks9HNh_GSiWKfrDQvRTjiUBxMUkNYmumyDtL05aRbM&e=> I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.staupell.com&d=DwMF-g&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=MraOYpMOnCsIdm9axhPA4iXJhhPExcCA4gBqoRhHvTU&m=x1pCibKIxK9R90Gq0URqmYUGQbpyfyMjCXuv6nl7DEk&s=pw29d-tS56zxFP3PPIECVT7vVnJWHaM3nrI2BlrABPk&e=> Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image002.png@01D4A773.0EF853A0] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

All, I read the rest of the thread on the archives, but this is the last message I had saved. I am still confused as to whether or not this is allowable. Our scenario: the basketball team is playing across Europe this summer, and we're offering a trip to go along with that. Trip includes the games, hotels, some meals, flights. Price per person is $10,000 with (rounding for ease) $5500 going toward actual trip costs, and $4500 as a donation. John did argue that the donation is voluntary-that if you don't want the deduction, don't go on the trip. If the announcement/flyer denotes the tax-deductible portion of the $10,000 cost, is this permissible? Thanks! --Jodie Jodie M. Ralston Executive Director Advancement Services T 315.443.1718 F 315.443.2874 jralston@syr.edu<mailto:jralston@syr.edu> Syracuse University From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Gregory Duke Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:19 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image002.png@01D4B7BE.46D3C560] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

Can I choose to pay only the $5,500? Just asking - I frankly can't help you since it's been too long that I've processed gifts. Does your organization have an accounting firm? --Marianne ________________________________________ Marianne M. Pelletier Staupell Analytics Group 607-592-3797 marianne@staupell.com<mailto:marianne@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Jodie M. Ralston Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:36 AM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips All, I read the rest of the thread on the archives, but this is the last message I had saved. I am still confused as to whether or not this is allowable. Our scenario: the basketball team is playing across Europe this summer, and we're offering a trip to go along with that. Trip includes the games, hotels, some meals, flights. Price per person is $10,000 with (rounding for ease) $5500 going toward actual trip costs, and $4500 as a donation. John did argue that the donation is voluntary-that if you don't want the deduction, don't go on the trip. If the announcement/flyer denotes the tax-deductible portion of the $10,000 cost, is this permissible? Thanks! --Jodie Jodie M. Ralston Executive Director Advancement Services T 315.443.1718 F 315.443.2874 jralston@syr.edu<mailto:jralston@syr.edu> Syracuse University From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Gregory Duke Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:19 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image001.png@01D4B7CE.286FF980] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

No, it's all or nothing for this trip. --Jodie Jodie M. Ralston Executive Director Advancement Services T 315.443.1718 F 315.443.2874 jralston@syr.edu<mailto:jralston@syr.edu> Syracuse University From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Marianne Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:29 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Can I choose to pay only the $5,500? Just asking - I frankly can't help you since it's been too long that I've processed gifts. Does your organization have an accounting firm? --Marianne ________________________________________ Marianne M. Pelletier Staupell Analytics Group 607-592-3797 marianne@staupell.com<mailto:marianne@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Jodie M. Ralston Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:36 AM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips All, I read the rest of the thread on the archives, but this is the last message I had saved. I am still confused as to whether or not this is allowable. Our scenario: the basketball team is playing across Europe this summer, and we're offering a trip to go along with that. Trip includes the games, hotels, some meals, flights. Price per person is $10,000 with (rounding for ease) $5500 going toward actual trip costs, and $4500 as a donation. John did argue that the donation is voluntary-that if you don't want the deduction, don't go on the trip. If the announcement/flyer denotes the tax-deductible portion of the $10,000 cost, is this permissible? Thanks! --Jodie Jodie M. Ralston Executive Director Advancement Services T 315.443.1718 F 315.443.2874 jralston@syr.edu<mailto:jralston@syr.edu> Syracuse University From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Gregory Duke Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:19 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image001.png@01D4B7D2.0FAD2E50] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.

I have seen many dinners and trips like this, with a ticket price that includes an enforced gift. However, I still am not sure what the rules are this year... --Marianne ________________________________________ Marianne M. Pelletier Staupell Analytics Group 607-592-3797 marianne@staupell.com<mailto:marianne@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> On Behalf Of Jodie M. Ralston Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:57 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips No, it's all or nothing for this trip. --Jodie Jodie M. Ralston Executive Director Advancement Services T 315.443.1718 F 315.443.2874 jralston@syr.edu<mailto:jralston@syr.edu> Syracuse University From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Marianne Pelletier Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:29 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Can I choose to pay only the $5,500? Just asking - I frankly can't help you since it's been too long that I've processed gifts. Does your organization have an accounting firm? --Marianne ________________________________________ Marianne M. Pelletier Staupell Analytics Group 607-592-3797 marianne@staupell.com<mailto:marianne@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Jodie M. Ralston Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:36 AM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips All, I read the rest of the thread on the archives, but this is the last message I had saved. I am still confused as to whether or not this is allowable. Our scenario: the basketball team is playing across Europe this summer, and we're offering a trip to go along with that. Trip includes the games, hotels, some meals, flights. Price per person is $10,000 with (rounding for ease) $5500 going toward actual trip costs, and $4500 as a donation. John did argue that the donation is voluntary-that if you don't want the deduction, don't go on the trip. If the announcement/flyer denotes the tax-deductible portion of the $10,000 cost, is this permissible? Thanks! --Jodie Jodie M. Ralston Executive Director Advancement Services T 315.443.1718 F 315.443.2874 jralston@syr.edu<mailto:jralston@syr.edu> Syracuse University From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> On Behalf Of Gregory Duke Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:19 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: Re: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Aaron: I can't claim to be the expert on this subject (and I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will see this thread soon), but I think I can offer some insight. What you're describing seems to me to be very close to the concept of making a donation to a university to get a "seat license". A seat license essentially allows you to buy season or game tickets to a sporting event. The catch is that without the seat license it is very hard or impossible to get the ticket. The IRS had been looking into this for years--their argument was that the seat license donation was not a donation at all: if you had to give money to the university to acquire the license, that transaction was actually part of the purchase price of the ticket. Last year, the new tax code ruled that the seat license fee was not a charitable donation. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/12/22/gop-tax-law-could-cost-top-college-athletic-departments-millions/#7ed290dabea0 I think the setup of your alumni travel package could be seen in the same light. In order to be eligible for the $2,000 alumni trip, your donors have to make a $1,000 donation. I could see the IRS making the same ruling on that: the $1,000 "donation" is not a donation at all, but rather an obligatory transaction that has to be made to be eligible to purchase the $2,000 trip, and therefore it should be considered part of the purchase price and not as a tax-deductible transaction. Again, I am not the expert here (paging John Taylor) but I think that's the gist of the situation. Thanks, Greg Gregory Duke, D.Phil, bCRE-PRO Staupell Analytics greg@staupell.com<mailto:greg@staupell.com> http://www.staupell.com Ph. (716) 946-1870 Twitter: GregoryEDuke [cid:image001.png@01D4B7D3.C6FBF310] ________________________________ From: Advancement Services Discussion List <FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG>> on behalf of Forrest, Aaron <aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU<mailto:aaron.forrest@ROCHESTER.EDU>> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:06:09 PM To: FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG<mailto:FUNDSVCS@LISTSERV.FUNDSVCS.ORG> Subject: [FUNDSVCS] Fundraising Trips Hello Friends! Does anyone do "fundraising trips or travel"? It seems like an odd way to have an event or raise money and I'd like to know if you see any issues? For example, "Pay $3,000 and join us on an exclusive academic related tour of Rome. $1,000 is a charitable deduction." Why is this setting of alarms in my head? Talk me away from the ledge, y'all! Aaron Aaron Forrest CPA Senior Director Gift and Donor Services University of Rochester Office of Advancement Larry and Cindy Bloch Alumni and Advancement Center 300 East River Road Rochester NY 14627 Office 585.275.2799 / Fax 585-273-4558 Email aaron.forrest@rochester.edu<mailto:aaron.forrest@rochester.edu> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.gif@01C92E92.3629C5E0] <http://www.rochester.edu/> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. Confidentiality Notice: This message, including attachments may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.